Trust, Links and Storytelling: Essential Marketing Lessons - Ep. 50

Trust, Links and Storytelling: Essential Marketing Lessons - Ep. 50.

In this 50th episode, hosts Erica and Alex celebrate their podcast milestone by exploring essential marketing concepts through popular industry quotes. They discuss relationship building, the evolution of trust in marketing, and the power of storytelling.

Key Points Discussed:

1. The importance of building relationships over acquiring links.

2. Examining the traditional "know, like and trust" philosophy.

3. The evolution of trust in the digital age.

4. The role of credibility and competence in marketing.

5. The impact of professional branding on customer perception.

6. The power of storytelling in modern marketing.

Episode Highlights:

[00:00:00] - Introduction and celebration of the 50th episode

[00:02:00] - Discussion on building relationships vs. link building

[00:04:00] - Debate on the ethics of vanity metrics

[00:07:00] - Exploring the concept of trust in marketing

[00:10:00] - The evolution of trust in the digital age

[00:12:00] - The importance of professional branding

[00:13:00] - The power of storytelling in marketing

1. "Don't build links, build relationships." - Rand Fishkin

2. "Do the right thing as marketers to build trust." - John Dick

3. "Storytelling is the most powerful way to put ideas into the world today." - Robert McKee

Actionable Tips:

1. Focus on building genuine relationships with customers and partners

2. Consider how trust impacts your marketing strategies

3. Ensure your business branding is professional, including email addresses

4. Incorporate storytelling into your marketing efforts

Subscribe to the Giraffes Don't Eat Steak Podcast for more marketing insights and join our community of marketers and business owners. Don't forget to leave a review and share this episode with your network!

Erica: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erica-mackay/
Alex: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-bilney/

Get in touch with us at The Marketing Detective Agency - www.themarketingdetectiveagency.com

Transcript

0:00

This is the Giraffes Don't Eat Steak Podcast, a show that brings you marketing stories, tips, hints and much more. A treat for those who want to succeed in business or marketers who just want to learn. Hello Alex. Hello, how are you doing? I am so excited. Can you believe this is episode 50 of our podcast. Of our podcast. Who thought we would get here? It seems to have arrived very very quickly. I tell you what felt longer, the period that we were talking about doing a podcast. Well that was that was two and a half years that we were talking about. That felt like an eternity. No actually two and a half years from the time we recorded episode one remember? We recorded episode one and then we gave up for two and a half years. That was right. Yeah various different variations of logos and names and music and did all of the stuff apart from actually recording. Yeah actually recording. Well here we are. We made it to Episode 50. I am so so excited. Virtual high five!! So what are we doing for our 50th episode. I think you said we're gonna play a game today. Yeah I thought we could just uh play this one off the cuff by the ear you know because we never do that normally it's really well- it's really really well-prepped. So I came across um just an article that had like a hundred marketing quotes from supposedly some some you know some of them are famous people some of them we may not have heard of made up famous people i'm not sure anyway I thought we could- I would- I've got 100 quotes so I'm gonna ask you to randomly pick a number and I'll read the quote and we can chat about the quote we can pull it apart I can say we agree with it we don't agree with it what we can learn from it what or if we've experienced it before blah blah blah blah blah. And we could maybe do two or three if we have time. Love it. So, I'm going to give you the randomizer the virtual randomizer that doesn't exist but i'm passing it over to you now and now it's on your desk it's got 100 numbers in there just press play and it's gonna go when it stops just pick up well sorry has to be 18 18? 18 okay. Like this one this one is a very short one don't build links, build relationships. This was from a Rand Fishkin the founder of Spark Toro I have to admit I don't know what that is. Do you know what that is? Okay but I quite like that don't build links don't build relationship and let me give you the description behind it. It says link building can sometimes feel impersonable impersonal impersonal and spammy. Instead build genuine connections with influencers, partners, and customers. Nurturing these relationships cultivates a strong network and naturally increases opportunities for more organic link placements. Okay well, I'm looking up Spark Zero now just so we can have a look. It's it's basically looks like a data tool. Find out which webcasts, podcasts, YouTube channels, and social networks your audience visits. See search keywords trending, keywords and questions your audience searches for, Find the right social networks, and build and export lists. So I guess if anybody knows about link building it's Spark Zero. These guys, nice. So this is kind of like an essay, okay well I mean I would agree with the the main concept of it that building genuine relationships whether it's physical, you know meeting someone and building a relationship, or if it's a relationship with customer through value building through your content etcetera. I absolutely agree with that rather than because there are like click farms and links that you can just buy to build, I guess, like vanity numbers. But actually the substance behind it means absolutely nothing. You've got no genuine customers that are who are interested in your product. That you just have numbers, as I said vanity numbers which Probably does have a place in some unethical way if you're trying to boost the profile of your of your business as in just when someone comes to your Instagram page with something they see you've got 10 000 followers they might be oh that's quite impressive but it does nothing for your business it has no substance behind it. So I agree with the first part of what you were saying but they're not the second part so I agree with this quote I think relationships, but it's an interesting word relationships because building a relationship like through an email campaign is that really a relationship? But anyway, we can that's a different debate. But just getting links, I agree with— I had this conversation last week where someone was talking about their measurement for a webinar is they want to get 300 people at their webinar I'm like no that's easy I can get 300 people then tomorrow, like I can just go to my kids school and ask all these kids to log on and there's 300 people and it's a done deal. That's absolutely a wasted metric right? You need to get quality you need to get the right kind of person You need to get deeper so, just links is not good enough in terms of the second part of it was, I think because you said unethical and I'm not sure vedative metrics are always unethical I think it depends on what you're trying to achieve right There are times when website visits may be a good metric and there's times when it's not so I'm not sure about the unethical word So let me tell maybe the context of what I had in my mind will make sense to you Okay, okay So I was doing some research for another business and who have a podcast and they're trying to build their their following And I've been looking at various different kind of download and view enhancements And People that can help you boost your views and get Okay, okay Responseships So I came across various, some of them were really unethical in the way that how they obtain the stats, states obtained of downloads and views and subscribers and another one was more ethical Okay so what I mean by unethical is I mean, they're not genuine And then the other part of that what I mean, what I mean, is a lot of podcasts are looking for sponsorship And so if you're building your sponsorship based on numbers that aren't genuine customers and don't genuinely reflect your target, your your audience, and then you're selling sponsorship of sponsorship off the back of that. In my mind, that's very unethical Okay, cool. I agree with that context You kind of have to You know I get stuck on words, Alex, you have to give me context Because I got stuck on that word I'm like, wait We say website visits is an unethical measurement? No. Not about the measurements I mean, the- what you're using Yeah, like how are you obtaining it and what you're using it for in a formal platform Cool If that's where the ethics comes into it for me Happily agree with that Happily agree Right, so are we picking another number? All right, so Oh, should I pick a random number? You go now 42 Okay. Number 42 Let's find where that is Okay Mine is... kind of similar Do the right thing as marketers to build trust John Dick Vice President of Marketing HubSpot Oh So trust is an interesting one I had this really awesome conversation Well, I went to this talk I'm always always trying to listen to different people about how to build trust and this guy basically was challenging the no like and trust philosophy His question was to the group was Who believes that a client has to trust you in order to buy from you? And I actually don't believe that I don't believe someone has to trust you Like if you've got a nail in the foot you know You just want help right, you're not gonna still take the time to vet and search and whatever If you've got a pebble in the shoe trust probably goes higher up the scale because you've got the time to go and compare and vet and look at stuff But if you're hopping around for a dentist to fix you don't know anything about that dentist except he's got an opening at a time and could help you That's all you know and you're gonna go right Do you trust him? So it's interesting isn't it no like and trust Which is a lot of marketers both their philosophies are no like and trust I still believe that there's some element of the trust even if it's that you're in a desperate situation your ability and time scale and patience to to investigate and if you like the person trust them is diminished somewhat But I still think at some level you're you're making that decision It's like if you're in a, if you go as a crowd of people a few people and you need help from somebody you don't have any time to think about know about that person you just take an instinct of this person subconsciously matches all the things I look in somebody I trust Like I find a look alike of something I have in my mind and so you're subconsciously choosing something that you trust I agree with you uh but the theory here was that credibility and competence overtakes actual trust because then you're just looking for competence right like again to my dentist example you know, I may take a quick glance at his star rating to see if he actually could do the job or how long is he you know if he's been in business one day or five years or whatever like just you know some sort of credibility check and competence check that you can actually do the job but again is it a relationship back to the previous question of relationship because trust for me is about relationships right it's not a relationship I'm going to give you money it's a transaction I'm going to give you money and you're going to fix my tooth and then I hope and I've said this to my dentist I hope I never see you again yeah I hope I never see you again and he said the same back to me so that was good but I think he was lying he does want your money really actually this dentist was really really interesting even with with my numb gum I was telling the camper my skydive and then the next time he saw me he remembered and asked about it and asked how it went or whatever I'm like he must have seen so many people I don't know if he took notes like as he talks to people while they're like mumbling along like she did a skydive or whatever customer retention strategy well it worked well no I still hope but but anyway so that that that word trust I think is evolving isn't it and I think a while back maybe not on this podcast but you and I have definitely spoken about this evolution of the word trust of trust where you know when I was growing up maybe not you but when I was growing up yeah stranger danger was a thing you would never get into a stranger's car you would never go to a stranger's house you would never like you just no oh I get into an uber or whatever with a total stranger all the time it's just like hop in like here I am I need to get from A to B I you know I go stay at an airbnb some stranger's house and it doesn't even I don't even think twice about it it's just happens now right i mean uber is a funny one though because you trust uber but you don't trust the driver yeah you trust the brand don't you and you're trusting that they are doing we don't really know but you're you're trusting that they've done all of their due diligence and they are looking out for you and they've got your back I know but I'm trusting them based on nothing i don't know them who's them who's them right I don't know them I don't my parents don't know them when I lived in in a small town in Valcom my my the day I had my first cigarette I'll never remember this my dad knew before I even got home my dad knew like somehow word of mouth had got and this is before cell phones, right but before I even walked to the door someone had got word to my father that Erica had a cigarette that day and it was that because everyone knew everyone everyone knew who I was they knew who my father was they knew who my parents they knew who my priest was right they knew where I lived that level of trust versus I trust this company that I've got no clue who's behind it I don't know but I'm willing the power of branding I'm willing to jump in there in their car with some stranger and trusts that they're going to take me who made it right It's different it's different but they're still they're still touching all of the All of the key indicators that we need as a human you know When we're even when it's a human relationship physical relationship there's a few things that we tick off to say OK We trust this person Brands are still doing that with us Like when you look at and you want to know if you trust them maybe one of the things Did they have a good social network of friends and they have good family etc That might be one thing that you think maybe I can trust that person because it shows they've got other relationships And that's kind of the same with client testimonials customer base repeat customers you hearing about other people talking about that brand that's like one of the things that you're ticking off to say Oh, I can trust this person right Absolutely doing the same things but just in a slightly different format But it's also so important that businesses think about that right So often I see a business And I know it's a small business but someone with the gmail email account is their primary contact Yes I don't think I can do the same thing It just leaves you with a little bit of doubt Right They could be fantastic But you get an itch right And you're like and it's thinking through all these things What am I doing for my business that is gonna put doubt in my potential client's mind because all of that doubt are barriers to purchase It's barriers to purchase and you've gotta fight much harder than to overcome those Whereas just having I know it's a little bit more money but just having your URL as your email goes that one step further right like one less barrier just one less barrier to the trust machine because as you say this trust machine it's still there but it's more complex now It's different and we need to think about how that plays Yeah Don't your do it for free and create an alias on Gmail though Yeah alias it's just little things right I absolutely agree with that point by the way I've seen many many times businesses with just a like I don't know David gmail I'm sorry Hotmail for me is worse I like I can still accept gmail but Hotmail I'm out no I agree I don't know why they got such a bad rep Well have to say all my my catfish were hotmailers Well, not all But most most of my catfish were hotmailers So maybe that's where I get my immediate like from catfish I also have the same thing Hotmail when I see hotmail I'm like why have we got hotmail something suspicious about that Gmail for some reason seems better okay cool give me another number into the randomizer 88 88 God I have to scroll all the way down to the bottom Well we got to prove that you have got your 100 but you don't have like five questions and you're pretending All right okay Storytelling is the most powerful way to put ideas into the world today That's Robert McKee an author and the description is with so many messages vying for our attention simultaneously stories have become one of the most powerful ways to cut through the noise and create an impactful narrative So that's a bit of an unfair one because you know I'm a toast master and storytelling is everything right from the stories we remember from children but it's positive and negative and I've got a daughter now I'm unpacking the horrors of some of the fairy tales that I was taught that she was taught and the messages behind them right like I'll kill all the fairy tales Can you give me an example? Well think about Cinderella that's an easy one right Cynderella was enslaved by her stepmother She had to clean the house and do all the stuff and then the prince came and saved her But she went to the ball She lost her shoe and the guy didn't recognize her until he put the shoe back on her foot and then only recognized her So I mean think of all those stories Number one for women is that it has to be a guy who saves you You can't save yourself You know you can't she What, Cinderella couldn't just leave She couldn't walk out of this situation She couldn't just say I'm done But also that this guy this part irritates me He didn't recognize her face He only saw her when he put the shoe on her foot Come on Well in his defense maybe he just had a massive foot fetish And he just wasn't into faces It just wasn't his intention Because the story is he went with a slipper around and put it on the foot of every single girl in the kingdom Like really? You couldn't just do a quick scan We'd knock you light That's a really good point Extremely honest You had to put it on everyone's foot Okay, she was blonde All the brunettes step aside She was skinny Can all the fat girls step aside? Was there not any obvious ones Like really? Anyway There's an example But it's a story that's been the test of time It's carried on from generation to generation We tell it to our kids and our kids can recite it to their kids It gets passed on And that's the power of storytelling is it touches an emotion It gets under your skin and you remember it's so much easier than it affects Yeah And what about the I think I sent you like a little short reel the other day about Coca-Cola They had They noticed that their sales of Coca-Cola The majority of them came in summer time but in winter time were really struggling to achieve the kind of sales they wanted to And I think they were losing out other drinks or other competitors or something like that And it's because they realized people associated drinking Coca-Cola to hot weather And that's When they that's when they started to link Coca-Cola and the red and with Santa Claus Which is the it was actually I think it was like Norwegian Norwegian St. Nicholas That was that was what people believed in back then Around Christmas time And then they Yeah they that figure made it more red In fact In everything And then bringing presents I eat Coca-Cola and running a huge campaign on anyway basically changing the narrative of Christmas Exactly and Coca-Cola And even today children believe in father Christmas Yeah, exactly And and it's all thanks to Coca-Cola and I also associate Coca-Cola with the big red lorries and with the lights coming across holidays are coming holidays are coming and I think of that as well and it's huge I don't know I'm I don't I'm not big Coca-Cola drink I rarely rarely rarely drink it but I I can see in my mind I can see Coca-Cola in all parts of the year Absolutely That's got nothing to do with the drink Nothing Nothing that's a story The story they created by the way that is absolutely genius it is genius it is genius absolutely genius the other genius one is diamonds where the story was created that diamonds were rare and that you couldn't find them and therefore they have to be used for like engagement and special events and stuff and this is still what people believe today and it's not true okay the price is through the roof now so the diamond companies are milking it but they weren't that rare It was now is everyone have all been dug out but uh self example is much much rarer than diamonds but it doesn't have the same around right so yeah stories are super super powerful yeah that is very important i think and even just with humans right you if somebody has an interesting story engaged yeah you're attracted to them by somehow right because you want to hear the rest yeah exactly think of like some of your just your network of good friends and things the ones that you really get on with have something interesting to say yeah but also like i was i was thinking about this the other day my deepest relationships all ever have a kickoff story there's always a story of basically the day we became friends right we may have known each other as acquaintances for ages before that but then there's the story the day that we became friends and do you know our friend Lukáš and we'll hopefully get him on the podcast soon i think i've shared this story before but the day look i said i became friends was we had been on the road for a week we'd been traveling to hungary and poland and check like literally we were doing shoots in the morning so it was tv commercials like up at six doing the shoot and then late night flights to get to the next place it was full on and we were at the last stop which was hungary and we landed at midnight and at the little airport in budapest and standing waiting for our suitcases and lukasz's suitcase came and mine didn't and i just i was so finished i was tired i was i was emotionally battered because it was just people for a week people i didn't know you know like was just so much so i just stood and had a good cry that was just like no and lukasz just took care of me he made sure he signed the forms for the lost luggage he got me the uber because i just was not in a stay to do anything just wanted to go home got me checked in at the hotel got me into my room and then i was sitting at my bed thinking what am i going to do and the next thing he knocked on my door was like two in the morning by then and he'd gone to go and find an all night petrol station and had bought me soap and shampoo and a hair brush and a toothbrush and just anything i could need to replace what was in my luggage like the sweetest thing and then he said is there anything else i need and i i said with the sops CLEAN UNDERWEAR and then he looked at me and he pulled out his phone he said well there is an all night sex shop but i wasn't sure of your size so we can go to that and then i started laughing and said well no look at at no point am i going to an all night sex shop with you in food waste and everything became better right and that was the day lucas and i became best friends that's a lovely story i do love that story and we always used to joke whenever we got to Budapest lucas would try and get me to that all night sick shop again still haven't been lucas still haven't been that's brilliant so well it's very clear this storytelling is oh so that's going to be an agreed and we agree with that we absolutely agree well we've agreed with all three right that's true we were wavering a little bit on the first one but we agreed now we did agree all right so do one last one fourth one to wrap it up alright let's go for it alright so i'm going to get the number what number did i say before now i'm going to reverse it say 24 okay no i'm going to make myself go all the way up 24 oh okay this one is from steve jobs the co-founder of apple master the topic the message and the delivery so the description is you will only convince others if you are convinced and knowledgeable yourself be sure you know what you're selling why you're selling it and how it can help your prospects well you have to agree with steve jobs but who could argue with steve jobs that's like a fantastic quote well where can you go wrong knowing what you're selling why you're selling it and who your prospects are i know it's like yes but how often do we find people who number one don't know their prospects right so they get they get the target audience wrong or even worse they're selling the wrong thing right they're selling features like especially it companies scess companies you know they're selling a tool which is not what people want at all you're selling the wrong thing get your message right like fix to the pain point of the audience and then you've got a winner so yes steve jobs yes we agree yeah i mean but It's not and some of the biggest culprits are the people who have invented the product the service or whatever themselves because yeah of needed it from a a geeky point of view you know the technical side of what they did and why it's so brilliant but they're missing the reason why people actually like it and why it's useful for them next and yeah and I think it's worse if you're a product owner because you take a step back to your audience who doesn't know as much as you and speak in that language right No one engineering doing a presentation to a client and it was a 80 page PowerPoint document and they wanted my they basically were trying to create like summaries and things Um so for my you know the privilege I had was to Crea BRT And by size summary of it basically Um And it was you know it was much easier for me to do it because I looked at it from a complete By the way their client was not technical Not an engineering person So not only what did I have fresh eyes but I also had a better understanding of someone who knew nothing who doesn't have an engineering background Um So I was able to you know Take a look atSAy Well, what do I want? What would she want to know? And they could guide me to those pieces and then we just pulled those out and then put them into the into the summary but that That makes that's a good example of A Knowing too much and B being focused too deep on it Yeah So yes Steve Jobs We agree Yeah Thank you Steve Jobs Well, thanks for a great game Alex I think that was an awesome way for us to uh celebrate our 50th and what's the story we told ourselves is we don't think anyone will listen to this but guess what We were wrong Yeah It's been a very quick 50 episodes from my side Well I look forward to doing the next 50 with you buddy it is to the next to my non-alcoholic drink here which is very sad It is Monday morning so Can't complain Okay well see you on 51 See you later Bye That wraps up This episode of giraffes don't eat steak Thanks for joining us I hope you found value in our discussion And got some new ideas to apply to your own business Tune in next week for another round of Marketing insights and Inspiration If you enjoyed this episode Please leave us a review and subscribe on Apple podcast Spotify or wherever you listen to podcast We appreciate you listening Catch you next time on giraffes don't eat steak