The Secret to Customer Loyalty: Creating Exceptional Experiences - Ep. 45

The Secret to Customer Loyalty: Creating Exceptional Experiences.

Episode Summary

In this episode of Giraffes Don't Eat Steak, hosts Erica and Alex dive into the world of customer experience. Through examples ranging from 80s pop star Tiffany's immersive concert to Virgin Atlantic's customer service, they explore what makes for exceptional customer experiences and how businesses can create loyal customers.

Key Points Discussed

• The importance of creating immersive experiences for customers
• Making customers feel wanted, appreciated and heard
• The impact of consistency in customer experience across all touchpoints
• How small gestures can make a big difference in customer perception
• The role of employee empowerment in delivering great customer experiences
• The connection between customer experience and customer retention

Episode Highlights

[00:02:15] Erica shares her experience at Tiffany's immersive concert 
[00:07:30] Discussion on the importance of making customers feel wanted [00:12:45] Alex talks about Virgin Atlantic's approach to customer service [00:18:20] The power of small gestures in enhancing customer experience [00:23:55] The role of employee empowerment in delivering great CX 
[00:29:30] How to apply these lessons to different businesses 
[00:34:50] Final thoughts and key takeaways

Quotable Moments

"How do you want your customers to feel when they interact with you?" - Erica

"It's not often that I'm buzzing like, almost 24 hours later. That's not normal." - Erica on Tiffany's concert experience

"Don't forget that those numbers represent a person who has, you know, a house, troubles, family, financial issues, the same as you do and everyone else does." - Alex

Resources Mentioned

1. Tiffany (80s pop star)
2. Virgin Atlantic
3. Vinay Palmer's talk on customer experience
4. Gusto (meal delivery service)
5. Ritz Carlton's customer service approach

Actionable Tips

1. Ask yourself: "How do I want my customers to feel after interacting with my business?"
2. Look for opportunities to create immersive experiences for your customers
3. Empower your employees to go above and beyond for customers
4. Focus on consistency in customer experience across all touchpoints
5. Don't underestimate the power of small, thoughtful gestures

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to Giraffes Don't Eat Steak on your favorite podcast platform and leave us a review. Your support helps us reach more listeners!

Have a customer experience story or a question for our hosts? We'd love to hear from you! Reach out to us on the links below.

Next Episode Teaser

Join us next time as we dive into the world of AI with Tom Stanhope. You won't want to miss it!

Erica: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erica-mackay/
Alex: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-bilney/

Get in touch with us at The Marketing Detective Agency - www.themarketingdetectiveagency.com

Transcript

0:00

This is the giraffes don't eat steak podcast. The show that brings you marketing stories, tips, hints, and much more. A treat for those who want to succeed in business or marketers who just want to learn. Hello, Alex. Hello. How are you doing? I am great. How are you? I'm very well. Thank you. I'm very well. You seem particularly buzzed this morning. I am. Oh my goodness. I had the most awesome experience. I went to see Tiffany live. Okay. You're too young. You've got no idea who Tiffany is. But anyone who is around in the eighties will know Tiffany. She was a eighties pop star with the song I Think You're Alone Now. You must know that song. The only way we're gonna get around this if you if you do us a a rendition line. No. That's not gonna happen. But I do know the song. I do know that song. And what was amazing about it and I actually met her. I spoke to her afterwards. And I said to her, I'm in marketing and I have to tell you this rock. Because what she did was she combined it. The session was actually called food with Tiffany. And she combined it food with Tiffany. Food with Tiffany. Okay. Yep. So she took over this whole place and she combined the menu was all Tiffany branded, Tiffany chosen burgers. There was a Tiffany branded cocktail. There was, like, she took over this whole place, then was there early to actually meet and mingle. She sat at people's tables while they were eating her Tiffany burgers and chatted to people all around. It was so phenomenal. And then went and did her set. Like, it was just from a experience perspective and okay. So I will tell you that everyone there was my age, all the Tiffany fans. Yeah. But everyone was glowing, thrilled, sang along to songs. Oh, it was the way that it was done was just phenomenal compared to I'm thinking of you and I being to concerts together where there's no interaction. There's there's nothing other than people flogging T shirts with the picture on outside the the venue. Like, that's the the most the most interaction you got. Right? Just gave you a full immersive customer experience, fan experience. Right? Absolutely. And I was blown away. I I stole the menu. What was the cocktail? Was it a cosmopolitan? It was not, sadly. It was a cocktail chocolate martini with coconut. You would have loved it. It had chocolate. Yeah. Coconut. It was chocolate, so not not my thing. Well, actually, chocolate and burgers are not my thing. But so but it didn't matter. Right? I know. So was it so, it was all, like, a preorder thing? Like, how did it what was the what was the process from buying a ticket to getting there if if it was if there was more than just a concert? I mean, maybe they could have done more. Maybe I should I should offer her some marketing advice on the run up to it. But so where I saw it was it was all on I follow on Instagram because I'm a fan. So it's on so it was well marketed, I think, to her target audience, Like, really really got that demographic right. Then you've got the the tickets. About a week before you got sent the menu in case you want a vegetarian or something different. So there was there was a drip feed of communication prior. Then when you arrived, you were given a little you were you know, your name was you were had a name, a slip with your name on it, which had your choices on it. And then if you hadn't made your choices, you could pick your choices, which then went off to the, chef. You went to find a seat, and then they came and found you. You would walk around going, Erica, is there Erica here? And then they would come and deliver your your food to you. Right? So it just was special. It was just really special. And you were sitting yeah. The fact that you were sitting with fans, like, literally everyone was there for the same reason, it kinda crossed all boundaries or like, we were literally all focused on on this amazing woman and and her story and her songs. Right? And then in the parts where it was sing along, of course, the whole place erupted into sing along. It was really brilliant. Yes. That sounds great. And were there other musicians playing? There was a opening act before her. But, again, she introed him introed him personally. So she she brought him on. She introed him. She told him to share his socials. She explained why she loved him, where she'd seen him before. It was so she was still the center of the entire experience. That makes sense? Yeah. And then after a set, I think she disappeared for a while probably to she she admits she's a self admitted tomboy, and she was wearing heels. So I think she went and did a change out of her heels, but then came back for for the die hards who were still hanging around. And then did the crowd mingling again. Like, was just brilliant. Exhausting. For her. Yes. Yeah. Sounds exhausting. That where is she from? She's from America. Okay. So so what would your what would your key pieces of advice be to Tiffany? I don't know. I'm I'm still on a buzz. So she's obviously done something right. Right? Because I it's not often that I'm buzzing, like, almost 24 hours later. Right? It's that's not not normal. Usually, we're we've had a great time when it's awesome, but it's not not normal that I'm still like, ah. But it did I there was a talk I went to 2 weeks ago by Vina Palmer, actually on customer experience. And he's asked the question, how do you want your customers to feel when they interact with you? And I think for me, that's the golden thread that Tiffany got right. She answered that question. She said, how do I want my customers to feel by the end of this night? And then plotted the activities even down to a Tiffany branded cocktail. I mean, how clever is that? To the menus with her face into it. Like, plotted it through, and she achieved it. And it's such a lesson, I think, for all of us in business. Right? And it's even up to your marketing messages. All of it has to start with that end. How do you want them to feel by the end? Therefore, what do I need to be doing from the beginning to make that happen? Jones actually wanted, fans to feel seen important, and, it, what's the word? Seeing, important, and, like, exclusive, if that makes what you you know what I mean? Yeah. And loved, actually. Like, literally. Appreciate it. We do. Like, you know, she she told me she liked my dress. I've I'm gonna wear that dress for the rest of my life. That's funny. She hugged us and said thank you for coming. You know what I mean? It's just like it's another level. I'm thinking of which is the concert you and I went to? And, was it the darkness? Was it the week no. Yeah. Darkness. Was it darkness? Oh, sure. Which one? Where he was in the crowd. Remember? Oh, yeah. The darkness. Yeah. We almost touched him. Right? He was close. Like, we were and so we got excited with the selfie when we were close to the background. This is like a whole different level to that. Right? Like, I actually hugged her. She actually spoke to me. She she said she loves South Africa. She's been there many times. She can't wait for her next trip. That's great. That sounds like a really good experience. Well, I mean, it it would be hard to do that in a certain level of fame. Maybe in in her heyday, it would have been a lot a lot more difficult to pull off that kind of experience for the customer for the fans. Right? Absolutely. And for different businesses, it'll mean different things, but it doesn't mean you don't need to think about it. No. No. No. I'm saying in in her in her stage, this works, and it and it's a good way of engaging her fans to feel the way that she wants them to feel. So at the agent stage of her business, which is herself, her product, herself, It works in that way. Absolutely. And I think, for example, I mean, insurance, where you and I spend a lot of our time, I don't think there's any thought to that question, is it? How how do we want customers to feel? I mean, it's definitely lacking in that industry for sure. It is. Right? And, I mean, what a big difference that would make if someone just sat and plot that and thought, okay. How do we want people to be not resentful? Because that's the general word with insurance. Right? Resentful. Like, I'm gonna pay you and nothing is gonna happen. Right? It's resentful. How do you change that story? What do you need to do? And for me, the other key thing is it's about experiences. It's not about sending a thank you email. It's not about that. I had I had a negative experience actually yesterday as well, which was with and I'm gonna name them because I've I've been a loyal customer for many years, which is with Gusto. Okay? I'm a loyal I was a loyal Gusto box order. Right? Name it than Shane. And for many years before COVID, when they were still new and upcoming, I've been there because they delivered the service I need. Right? I can pick and choose wonderful balanced meals for my family. It all gets I don't have to measure. I don't have to chop things. I don't have to whatever. I don't have to think about what am I cooking today. So it really works for me, and I've been consistent. Yesterday, I was supposed to get 5 me 5 meals for the week. That's how I plan it. And only 3 arrived. Okay. No. Just a So I contact them. Right? Like, hey. What's happening? Oh, it was supposed to be 5, and then I got 3. They go, oh, they'll contact the courier company. Okay? I get a call from the courier company saying, hi. We believe that you're missing a box. I'm like, yes. It was supposed to be 5. There's only 3. So I'm assuming the other 2 are in a second box. Right? Like, there it is. They're like, oh, we're so sorry. And now we can't deliver it because it's it's gotta deliver by date on. Oh, yeah. So please contact Gusto for your refund. That doesn't really help the the empty stomachs of my family. Anyway, contact them. I'm like, okay. Here it is. The box hasn't been delivered. Okay. What was in the box? So first, I had to now go through what was in the box. You cracked the box. You don't know what box, but okay. Fine. And then no problem. We'll send your money back. And again, it felt flat. That is the least I would expect because I didn't get my goods. So then you shouldn't have you shouldn't take my money. But now I am 2 meals out of my planning. It is a huge inconvenience to me. Yeah. That that that should be or you would expect you know, I'm I've it's not necessarily about the money in that position. It's about the food that I expect and the food from my family. You know? I I don't know what how quick their turnaround is in terms of getting the food out to people, but you made that case rather an immediate replacement. Right? In even just an acknowledgment of the inconvenience to me. Anything. Right? Like, is your money back plus a free meal or something? Or 10% off your next box or anything anything. A free freaking spoon. Sorry. I'm not these cuts are wearing out. But, you know, I was wearing a little bit of notice. But you know what I mean? Like, from experience perspective, I'm finished. I'm finished. I'm gonna shop around. Especially if you say, look, you know, I've been shopping with you every week for the last 5 years. That's quite an investment into your business, and I feel quite undervalued right now considering the amount of value I've given into your business. And, actually, when they were looking me up, they should have seen, oh my goodness. This is a 5 year customer. Mhmm. If they had proper CRM systems in place. Right? This is a 5 year customer. I think a £10 voucher would would really, go a long way for the same convenience. Well, I mean, it's having the right CRM system and it's having the right person to build a correct strategy around it. They may have a great system, but they don't use it properly. So, anyway, from a customer experience perspective, I went from boo to yay all in one day. So you you're moving from Guston? I'm shopping around as we speak. That's that's a great loss for them. Talk with my feet. Right? Talk with my feet. But, I mean, it it you're not alone. So if you think about how many other people would be put off by that kind of experience, there's gonna be there's gonna be a lot of people, and it's quite a simple fix. It is. It is a simple fix. But, actually, this, Vinay Palmer guy that, that that I was listening to, he said something interesting is when you are a one man band, your customer experience is dependent on you. So when you decide that question, how do I want my customers to feel, You are the one that has to make it happen. But as you grow, you also need to think about how do you make sure that customer experience is completely consistent no matter what touch points people have. And this could be the problem with Gusta. Right? Is maybe the person I spoke to is probably the maybe the one person out of 10 who didn't do what they were supposed to do. Yep. I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. But do do you understand what I'm saying? Because the bigger your organization, the harder that becomes unless you're really clear on your measurements, your tracking, your, you know, how are people rewarded, compensated? How do you make sure every single touch point across your organization knows that this is the customer experience we expect? Well, that's the benefit of automated processes. Right? And it rather than relying on which side of the bed did my my customer service agent get out of bed from in the morning. You know? Absolutely. I mean, there's always a level of human, decision making. Right? But if they're rewarded correctly, then so if it's if the reward is simply, financial loss, then yes. Give the least possible to keep the client happy is the answer. If if the measurement is on customer retention, do can you see the decision making would be slightly different? Yeah. I think Amazon had a really good, case study for that because, I mean, they're huge. But then I think that they what was it? Their their their main focus, right, is just the customer. So is the customer happy? And what would the customer want in this point? What does the customer want in this point? It was it's very, very customer focused rather than rather than profit focused, and I think that makes a huge difference. And their company is huge. I know it has doesn't have you know, it's had its own problems. Yeah. But but but considering the size of the business is and in and in America, in certain countries, and let the UK, for example, it's pretty seamless. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty but it's a it's a behemoth of a of a machine, isn't it? Absolutely. In fact, one of my very first projects, very long time ago now, was a customer experience project at a bank. And, we ran the program for a year, and then there were 5 winners chosen. And the prize was a 1 week trip to see the customer experience giants who at the time were the Ritz Carlton, in America. Where did we come in London? Country we did London we did London, New York, Seattle. In Seattle was the fish company. You must have seen that video where they're throwing fish around and making people happy, and they were, like, the how to make even selling fish a good custom experience. Then the Ritz Carlton, and then, I can't remember who we visited in London. But, anyway, we went behind the scenes of these companies to try and understand how they got consistent customer experience throughout the entire organization, what the training processes were, what the measurements. And I remember clearly whether it's Ritz Carlton is every employee had a discretionary, like, pocket money budget. Okay. So that if if there was anything, like, they needed to buy the customer a thank you flowers or a sorry box of chocolates or whatever, they all had this that that was part of the deal is they had a discretionary pocket money budget that they could use their own intuition to what do I need to do to lift the customer from even just from content to happy? Because that that's what the Gusto thing was was with me. Right? I I got my money back. Mhmm. So it's a it was a neutral transaction. Yeah. But my feelings were not neutral. Yeah. And that's actually also quite clever. When you're talking about, what are the incentives for the for the employee? Is it just on financial loss, which is not a great thing, or is it something else with the the one the example you just gave with the RIPS? Because a lot of the workers in the RIPS get, tips. Right? So if they have an extra piece of ammunition, let's say, to to help them keep the customer happy, it's in their benefit because they'll they it's it's gonna put a good light on them. It doesn't necessarily put a good light on the writs. It does, but it also puts a direct light on that employee when because the employee is the one who's giving the money. When they give the money, the the well off customer will be like, wow. You know? I know he just gave me £5 for the this whatever flower. But at the end of my 1 week stay, I'm gonna give him a 100 pound tip. You know? Exactly. Exactly. It's really and that's what I mean is it's gotta be the bigger your organization, the more you need to think about reward, recognition, you know, measurement, tracking because you what you measure is what you get. So if you measure sales, you're gonna get sales. That's just the way it is. Right? Yeah. It but it it's also so fascinating. And maybe it's not. Maybe it's a case of because I had that talk by by Vina Palmer on customer experience, and now I'm just so aware. Like, I'm just, like, seeing all these custom experience examples in my life because the awareness was raised. Yeah. But I I you you do notice it. I mean, you noticed it with whoever you're still with. Say, maybe with Gusto before, for example, you enjoyed the service up into a point now. So we we're we're maybe not really conscious of those experiences we love, but if you stop to think and and say to yourself which subscription services or which, yeah, what what am I still part of? What am I still paying for? What am I still getting value from? And if you look at that and think, well, why am I with that? Why is I'm enjoying it? I'm getting the money I'm paying, I'm getting I'm getting double that back in terms of value or entertainment or whatever it is. Absolutely. And then all of that can be part of your marketing message. Right? If that's your marketing message because if you measure that let's say you measure the customer satisfaction. If your customer experience is meeting all its it's ticking all its boxes, then your customer satisfaction survey is going to be high. Right? You're gonna be 99% of our customers are happy. And then that can feed into your marketing message. Or you're also gonna get a lot more testimonies, a lot more positive comments in your socials, a lot more Google reviews that are positive, which then gives you ammunition to use in your marketing. So it has a real knock on effect. Plus it'll make your attention easier because then it's not a price discussion When customers are choosing between do they stay with you or do they go to someone else, it'll really be about I don't know if they're gonna treat me in the same way, and I actually really like the way this works. Right? So I'm gonna stay. You're right. And as soon as you can push price out of the decision making window, you're you're on you're on to a winner. Right? If if price doesn't become the object of, rejection. Yes. Absolutely. Definitely. Cool. So should more artists like Tiffany in their particular stage and age of their career, take a leaf out of her book? Or is it only because of her personality that it works and it's quite unique to her? It's a hard one. I don't know. I love live music as you know. Like, I'm a massive live music fan, and I've I've got absolute favorites. And maybe it's also generational. You know? Would I would I have gone for dinner with, you know, one of the newer artists? It probably wouldn't mean the same. I I would go for a different reason, but because she was part of my teenage molding years and, like, I would sing her songs in my bedroom, you know, while I was, like, feeling frustrated with the world. And so maybe that's why it means more to have connected. Yeah. Right? So probably, these artists now should go to this generation when they're at they're 20, 30 years on. And and it's about meaning. No. You wouldn't go to dinner with Justin Bieber. Well, that but that's for a different reason. I think I think it works really well when there's been an emotional connection with your audience. Yeah. When when they were part of a part of you know, even you know, what's the root thing to red, red wine? You'll be 40. 40. I'm there. Right? For that, you'll be 4 because, again, it was my emotional teenage years. I used to sing when I was angry with my mother. I would sing that there's a rat in the kitchen. Like, because I would but she wouldn't know it was about her wealth. I don't think she knew it was about her. But it would get my frustration out. Right? Because that's how I expressed myself. And so that's got emotional. Like every song I can tell you what I was doing at that time, who I was with, what was happening in my life. It's got that connection. So that I think would mean a lot more to me than than Justin Bieber. Right? I don't have an emotional connection with Justin Bieber. But you know what I mean? Like where where would the from, you know, from that eighties, nineties, when I was in my molding years, I have absolute, you know, emotional connection. So I think that's what it probably works best is my opinion. Mhmm. Yeah. I I think it that that makes a lot of sense. It's but but that's that's that's kind of hard to if if we look at Justin Bieber, for example, I mean, there's probably people who, now aged I don't know. Just coming up to the age of 30 or something. I don't know. How old is Justin Bieber? No idea. Let's say Younger than me, I think. Let's say let's say he's let's have a little Google search. I'm quite interested in looking. He is he's 30. Oh, wow. That was correct. So I guess if you have 30 year olds just turning 30, maybe they have the connection that Yes. You had with Tiffany. Exactly. So I think it's about where you have the connection. Like, who if you think about when you were growing up, what is the artist that stands out in your mind as, like, just had had that helped you through tough times or whatever. Right? Yeah. Something very aggressive. And I'm actually going to see them in November. They're coming to Colombia. There we go. Right? They and it was real. They imagine if they had an immersive experience where you could actually sit and talk to them and have dinner with them. It would probably be a really messy dinner in middle But would you pay more for that or not? Yeah. Except that's my point. Right? It's a it's a financial conversation. It's not even just a feelings based conversation. You would pay more for that for that opportunity. Yeah. So they don't have to offer it to everyone because not everyone's gonna afford the higher price. But those die hard, yes, please pick me, I wanna be the one, would pay the price. So then you have a small intimate group of that die hard band who maybe get 2 hours before the main show of of immersive discussion, and then fine into the and they kind of do it in in, big, concerts now, right, where you pay more for that inner circle y area. Yeah. They do that a lot. But this is the next stage of that immersive contact. Yeah. Yeah. They they are still doing it for it's it's much I mean, Tiffany, for example, has she doesn't have I guess, doesn't have a huge fan base where where she's still selling out arenas. Yeah. So where where you still have bands that have, I don't know, like Guns and Roses. Guns and Roses. They're, you know, they're they're not spring chickens, but they're still selling out arenas. Yeah. They're selling out. Something like that. So, that them, if they put in that other layer, I'm saying. Right? Because they've got the inner circle layer, which you pay more, and then the stand, and then this Yeah. Like, they were the layers. I bet you if they put in another layer even at $10 a pop, whatever, which is come and have dinner with the group, there would be people who would pay it. Yeah. Of course. They do that at big sporting events and some boxing events that you can pay eye watering amounts of money to get. You know, you got the front seat, but then you also have, access to the the fighter's back route, back, back area where you can go around and mingle and talk. But, you know, that that's, like, the elite elite. I mean, you gotta be super rich to get there, but still, they have that offer. It's still part of that experience. But it's just not you said not open to me, basically. And then back down to our real world, like, where we don't have people who would pay lots of money just to spend time with us. But, you know, what what is that experience level look like? Is there something in our business flow that you can create an elite experience? Yeah. Yeah. So you have your normal customer experience, which must still wow You You know? 2 hour delivery. Don't know if it's possible. But, you know, is there urgent? I forgot to do any shopping, and I need dinner at the table. Can can I get same day delivery of my box? Yeah. And and but often it's even just language. I mean, but but I've I was part of, Bluebird Virgin a few times, not that many times, literally a few times. And I was collecting points of them. Why not? But, you know, I was I was not even I'm not even considered a a frequent flyer at all with them, and so I was on the lowest of the lowest of the lowest of the lowest band and probably hit the bottom part of that. But still, the way that they would communicate with me, the way that they talked to me via the emails and quite and then the the the frequency of the emails and the perceived offers I was getting even though I wasn't really paying anything. I'd only had a few flights very regular. I still felt somehow important to them. I don't I don't know how to explain it. And I Bertie is a good example. Yeah. And and they really they really made me what if I was gonna fly a route that they were on, I'd I'd take it. But at the end of the day, I wasn't really getting any discounts or anything from them. But I can't really explain it, but just the way that they made me feel was that, well, I feel like I'm wanted on board rather than being on board with British Airways or something. I felt I felt that that the way that they the communication style, the language they use is a lot more, emotional. A lot more. Yeah. I'm a lot more tailor, a lot more emotional, a lot more it made me feel like I was in an exclusive club. You know? I know I'm not in any exclusive club. I'm I'm I'm just part of the horde, but that's not how they made me feel. And and that, for me, was that that was you know, it's it's quite, impressive how they could do that, to be honest. And with Virgin, it runs all the way through, right, from their marketing messages even to that safety video on when you're sitting is done differently. It's done it it's just everything is that the whole experience is built around that. Mhmm. I was on a Christmas Eve flight once or and they all the, hostesses were wearing Christmas hats, and at midnight, like, everyone came and wished happy like, you the small little things like that. I was on a Valentine's flight once, and we all got little heart shaped chocolates on the flight. Like, it's just little things. Right? Like, it's it's it doesn't have to be big things. It's tiny little things. Exactly. That makes a big difference, and it doesn't cost anything for the airline. I actually remember I've only flown once during New Year's Eve. Like, we'd hit 12 o'clock at night on the airplane. And I was thinking I was like, this would be quite fun. You know, I could maybe could see some fireworks out the window. Maybe, you know, they'll come out and do, like, hey. Happy New Year. Here's a free small glass. They didn't do anything. And I was like, I was kinda looking forward to this flight. And they're like, I can't remember what the airline was, to be honest. But it was a it was a it was a long flight. It was like a 6, 7 hour flight or something. So it wasn't just like a crappy little hour flight on Ryanair or something. And I had that expectation. And I don't think my expectation of cost that rate that much. I mean, how often does New Year's Eve happen for the you know, once a year. And how many how many of their their planes are flying right at that moment? Not that many. But it would've made a bit nuts. And yep. So kudos to Virgin. I think they did it really well. Right? They've thought it through. They've asked the question, how do I want my customers to feel at the end, and then mapped it all the way through to their marketing message to make sure it all sticks up. Yeah. Having said that, I think they're in trouble, though, as an airline. Really? It's a I think so. I'm not sure. I thought I I thought I that might be fake news, but I think I read that somewhere. It's there is a different business. The airline business is a very difficult business, though, I think. Well, especially now with all the sustainability issues and all the rest. Right? It's a different world. Yeah. On that down note so if you had to give your top three tips, Alex, on, customer experience to our listeners, what would you say? I think the first thing is make them feel wanted and I mean, be I would say I mean, just just make someone feel wanted and appreciated. And I and I think you're onto you're onto a big winner. And I I think if you have that mindset, that helps a lot of your decision making. So at this point of the customer journey, if they're whatever that whatever that is, if there is, like, a complaint part or the sale part or the return part, at that point, think about just think to yourself, how can I make them feel wanted and appreciated? And if you have that in your mind, I I feel that that will give that will help you make a right decision, a good decision that will ultimately benefit you down the line with customer retention and, word-of-mouth. So also new new customers as well. That that would be my biggest piece of advice. Okay. Yeah. I think that's pretty all encompassing. And I think the other word you used earlier, heard. Make them feel heard. I think I think that's so important. Right? Just heard. Yeah. I think I think, it can get to a point, especially as as your business scales, that the transactions and the customers you have can turn into numbers. Yeah. And I think, it's at that point you you just need to be really careful. It doesn't matter how many customers you don't have on your book. One person to 1,000,000 people. Yeah. I just have to remember they're still those numbers represent a person who has, you know, has a house, troubles, family, financial issues, the the same as you do and everyone else does. And don't forget that. Yeah. And I think it's it's also very interesting because most people won't take the time to complain. Right? If they're unhappy or they haven't enjoyed an experience, they're gonna they're just gonna leave. So check your numbers. I always say when people come to me and say, oh, we need to get more leads in. We need to get more sales. Let's look across the board because sometimes you have enough. Mhmm. And there's a big fat hole at the bottom of your buckets because, oh, look. You you lost the day today. Have you looked into why? Have you seen what's happening? And that's often just the customer experience didn't meet the expectations. Right? Yeah. So Right. But she is interested. It's much easier to leave. Right? Just go and shop around. And in today's world, because everything is so accessible, it's really easy to just Google who's the next one in line, find another one, move. Right? You don't that feels like an easier conversation than fighting with a company to improve their their processes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Brilliant. Well, I'm still on my. I wonder how long it's gonna last. You have a awesome day further, Alex. Thank you very much. You too. See you. Alright. Bye bye. That wraps up this episode of giraffes don't eat steak. Thanks for joining us. I hope you found value in our discussion and got some new ideas to apply to your own business. Tune in next week for another round of marketing insights and inspiration. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. We appreciate you listening. Catch you next time on Giraffes Don't Eat Steak.